Channelling as an effect question

[Grizzle]

Hi @Rob Lane

I have a question about how the channelling as an effect works for the channel action.

Here is a screen shot of the relevant area in the rulebook:



So it looks like you can make an invocation fail by swapping out dice that are below the enemy invoker's value needed, and you can also channel as retribution or effect.

For retribution it's clear, you need to roll equal to or above the enemy needed value to do it, meaning the spell still works but the invoker takes a wound per channeled dice.

But how does the effect one work? Would a channeler still need to swap enough dice of a low amount in order to make the spell fail? And then follow the rest of the channel as effect rules by transferring the effect onto a target within the range determined by the channel dice?

Or can you simply roll your channel dice, swap as many or as little as you want, stop the invoke going off (I say stop since the wording implies the same invoke is moved from one target to another and not a copy of the spell), then transfer it to a target within range and then roll the channel dice you swapped?

Or does it just go off the value of the swapped dice, and after determining a target, it either fails or succeeds based on the value on those dice and the temper of the new target?

As an example:

Gorgor invokes chasm on 7 dice.

Oghurithne channeler channels on 7 dice as well, 6 of those dice are the same value as what the gogor needed, the other 1 is a 0.

The channeler wants to channel as an effect, how does he swap the dice and what determines if the effect is transferred? Can he swap all 7, including the 0 , and then roll for the focus range on those 7, and then does he have to roll for the invoke on 7 dice on a new target and temper?

Or does he use the dice values as they were rolled? Meaning the invoke counts as cast as if I had rolled those values, but I don't need to roll again, and so a 0 would cause him to fumble as there are no fated 9s in his roll in this example?

And, if we leave out the 0, does the other channel dice, which are equal or above the enemy invoke value, even stop the invoke to redirect?

If it does, does this mean I can just roll 1 dice as a channel against an enemy invoke, redirect it and hope it fails?

Would seem overly powerful if so.

Sorry for the massive post, but let me know if I'm misunderstanding this.

[Rob Lane]

Hi @Rob Lane

I have a question about how the channelling as an effect works for the channel action.

Here is a screen shot of the relevant area in the rulebook:



So it looks like you can make an invocation fail by swapping out dice that are below the enemy invoker's value needed, and you can also channel as retribution or effect.

Yep, all good so far.

For retribution it's clear, you need to roll equal to or above the enemy needed value to do it, meaning the spell still works but the invoker takes a wound per channeled dice.

But how does the effect one work? Would a channeler still need to swap enough dice of a low amount in order to make the spell fail? And then follow the rest of the channel as effect rules by transferring the effect onto a target within the range determined by the channel dice?

Well, if you swap dice and make it fail, it doesn't channel the effect; do you get what I mean? You've made the invocation fail. So to actually channel an invocation, you have to roll your channel dice and swap them so that they're equal to or higher than the invoke dice (note the passage: "but only uses the channelled dice as invoke dice").

Or can you simply roll your channel dice, swap as many or as little as you want, stop the invoke going off (I say stop since the wording implies the same invoke is moved from one target to another and not a copy of the spell), then transfer it to a target within range and then roll the channel dice you swapped?

Again, you've stopped it going off, so it can't channel somewhere else.

Or does it just go off the value of the swapped dice, and after determining a target, it either fails or succeeds based on the value on those dice and the temper of the new target?

It doesn't matter about the TEMPER of the new target; it's either channelled or its not, based on the dice you swap.

As an example:
Gorgor invokes chasm on 7 dice.

Oghurithne channeler channels on 7 dice as well, 6 of those dice are the same value as what the gogor needed, the other 1 is a 0.

The channeler wants to channel as an effect, how does he swap the dice and what determines if the effect is transferred? Can he swap all 7, including the 0 , and then roll for the focus range on those 7, and then does he have to roll for the invoke on 7 dice on a new target and temper?

He just swaps the channel dice as required, and channels it somewhere else - the only thing you have to work out is the channel range. So the more channel dice you swap, the greater the range.

Or does he use the dice values as they were rolled? Meaning the invoke counts as cast as if I had rolled those values, but I don't need to roll again, and so a 0 would cause him to fumble as there are no fated 9s in his roll in this example?

Correct apart from the fumble - that's explicit on p377, under "Channel rolls cannot cause fumbled invokes"...

And, if we leave out the 0, does the other channel dice, which are equal or above the enemy invoke value, even stop the invoke to redirect?

It doesn't stop it, it redirects it.

If it does, does this mean I can just roll 1 dice as a channel against an enemy invoke, redirect it and hope it fails?

Well it wouldn't fail, because you've redirected it.

Would seem overly powerful if so.

How so?

Sorry for the massive post, but let me know if I'm misunderstanding this.

No it's fine bud! Happy to clear it up...

Cheers
Rob

[Rob Lane]

Hi @Rob Lane

I have a question about how the channelling as an effect works for the channel action.

So it looks like you can make an invocation fail by swapping out dice that are below the enemy invoker's value needed, and you can also channel as retribution or effect.

Yep, all good so far.

For retribution it's clear, you need to roll equal to or above the enemy needed value to do it, meaning the spell still works but the invoker takes a wound per channeled dice.

But how does the effect one work? Would a channeler still need to swap enough dice of a low amount in order to make the spell fail? And then follow the rest of the channel as effect rules by transferring the effect onto a target within the range determined by the channel dice?

Well, if you swap dice and make it fail, it doesn't channel the effect; do you get what I mean? You've made the invocation fail. So to actually channel an invocation, you have to roll your channel dice and swap them so that they're equal to or higher than the invoke dice (note the passage: "but only uses the channelled dice as invoke dice").

Or can you simply roll your channel dice, swap as many or as little as you want, stop the invoke going off (I say stop since the wording implies the same invoke is moved from one target to another and not a copy of the spell), then transfer it to a target within range and then roll the channel dice you swapped?

Again, you've stopped it going off, so it can't channel somewhere else.

Or does it just go off the value of the swapped dice, and after determining a target, it either fails or succeeds based on the value on those dice and the temper of the new target?

It doesn't matter about the TEMPER of the new target; it's either channelled or its not, based on the dice you swap.

As an example:
Gorgor invokes chasm on 7 dice.

Oghurithne channeler channels on 7 dice as well, 6 of those dice are the same value as what the gogor needed, the other 1 is a 0.

The channeler wants to channel as an effect, how does he swap the dice and what determines if the effect is transferred? Can he swap all 7, including the 0 , and then roll for the focus range on those 7, and then does he have to roll for the invoke on 7 dice on a new target and temper?

He just swaps the channel dice as required, and channels it somewhere else - the only thing you have to work out is the channel range. So the more channel dice you swap, the greater the range.

Or does he use the dice values as they were rolled? Meaning the invoke counts as cast as if I had rolled those values, but I don't need to roll again, and so a 0 would cause him to fumble as there are no fated 9s in his roll in this example?

Correct apart from the fumble - that's explicit on p377, under "Channel rolls cannot cause fumbled invokes"...

And, if we leave out the 0, does the other channel dice, which are equal or above the enemy invoke value, even stop the invoke to redirect?

It doesn't stop it, it redirects it.

If it does, does this mean I can just roll 1 dice as a channel against an enemy invoke, redirect it and hope it fails?

Well it wouldn't fail, because you've redirected it.

Would seem overly powerful if so.

How so?

Sorry for the massive post, but let me know if I'm misunderstanding this.

No it's fine bud! Happy to clear it up...

Cheers
Rob

[Grizzle]

Hi @Rob Lane

I have a question about how the channelling as an effect works for the channel action.

So it looks like you can make an invocation fail by swapping out dice that are below the enemy invoker's value needed, and you can also channel as retribution or effect.

Yep, all good so far.

For retribution it's clear, you need to roll equal to or above the enemy needed value to do it, meaning the spell still works but the invoker takes a wound per channeled dice.

But how does the effect one work? Would a channeler still need to swap enough dice of a low amount in order to make the spell fail? And then follow the rest of the channel as effect rules by transferring the effect onto a target within the range determined by the channel dice?

Well, if you swap dice and make it fail, it doesn't channel the effect; do you get what I mean? You've made the invocation fail. So to actually channel an invocation, you have to roll your channel dice and swap them so that they're equal to or higher than the invoke dice (note the passage: "but only uses the channelled dice as invoke dice").

Or can you simply roll your channel dice, swap as many or as little as you want, stop the invoke going off (I say stop since the wording implies the same invoke is moved from one target to another and not a copy of the spell), then transfer it to a target within range and then roll the channel dice you swapped?

Again, you've stopped it going off, so it can't channel somewhere else.

Or does it just go off the value of the swapped dice, and after determining a target, it either fails or succeeds based on the value on those dice and the temper of the new target?

It doesn't matter about the TEMPER of the new target; it's either channelled or its not, based on the dice you swap.

As an example:
Gorgor invokes chasm on 7 dice.

Oghurithne channeler channels on 7 dice as well, 6 of those dice are the same value as what the gogor needed, the other 1 is a 0.

The channeler wants to channel as an effect, how does he swap the dice and what determines if the effect is transferred? Can he swap all 7, including the 0 , and then roll for the focus range on those 7, and then does he have to roll for the invoke on 7 dice on a new target and temper?

He just swaps the channel dice as required, and channels it somewhere else - the only thing you have to work out is the channel range. So the more channel dice you swap, the greater the range.

Or does he use the dice values as they were rolled? Meaning the invoke counts as cast as if I had rolled those values, but I don't need to roll again, and so a 0 would cause him to fumble as there are no fated 9s in his roll in this example?

Correct apart from the fumble - that's explicit on p377, under "Channel rolls cannot cause fumbled invokes"...

And, if we leave out the 0, does the other channel dice, which are equal or above the enemy invoke value, even stop the invoke to redirect?

It doesn't stop it, it redirects it.

If it does, does this mean I can just roll 1 dice as a channel against an enemy invoke, redirect it and hope it fails?

Well it wouldn't fail, because you've redirected it.

Would seem overly powerful if so.

How so?

Sorry for the massive post, but let me know if I'm misunderstanding this.

No it's fine bud! Happy to clear it up...

Cheers
Rob

Sorry about the very late reply to this.

So the reason I asked is, if I have one of the eponymous Oghurithne Channellers, and he has his special staff that makes his channel range the same as his temper (72") does this mean I can potentially channel 7 different invokes with his 7 channel dice and just use a single dice each time to redirect an enemy spell somewhere, likely the floor as it specifies you can target the battlefield, and just completely shut down enemy invoking?

I have a budding Albainn army so I wanted to know if I would be playing that right.

[Rob Lane]

Yeah, he can do that, although as we spoke at Weston about it, channelling will be clarified slightly...

Cheers
Rob