General Clarification sort out.

[Robola]

Hey everyone,
This is going to be a long one.
First of all I would like to confirm some of the rule tweaks that have happened.
Bulk chargers:
The impact hits are directed to the miniature that the charger's head mark is base to base with. From what I have read in the rule book and on here from the errata, does this mean the miniature hit takes all of the damage dice or does it spread through the unit?
The reason I ask is, If you set up a V shape for infantry the miniature at the front could soak up all the damage and be removed from the table which would leave the attacker possibly out of combat which in turn would allow the defenders to attack move in. This example is with a large single miniature.
This brings me to the conversation on mass 1 infantry: If the above is the case this makes infantry a bit better. I don't think infantry should have 2 activations even with a Authority test. I don't believe that while in combat the infantry would last longer enough to take advantage of the second activation.

Effect damage and Overwhelmed damage.
This is were mass 1 will have major problems. Unless this has been tweaked and I have missed it, Effect damage as written in the rule book clearly states, If the quell test is failed the unit takes effect damage.
Effect damage: Damaged caused by delayed continuous effects must always be calculated by dividing the effect tokens by the mass of the warrior effected.
In the example It is 8 tokens divided by the mass of a mass 3 warrior and not the unit. 20 fire tokens on a unit of 15 mass 1 infantry would take 20/1=20 damage? 20 tokens on 5 mass 4 infantry would take 20/4=5 damage. If this is right this is brutal and awesome.
Some conversion came up at the GT that you take the Mass off and then divide the remainder. In some cases this would lead you to have massive amounts of token before hurting larger stuff.

Overwhelmed is unit mass. So if the token equal and or are above the unit would take damage. 20 fire tokens on a unit of 15 mass 1 infantry passes the quell test. 20/15=1.333 rounded up to 2 damage. each of the effect tells us what damage is applied from Overwhelmed.
Passing a quell test makes good sense for the amount of damage. everyone in the unit has helped sort out the effect. Failed test and your in trouble.

With the above rules in affect how do we sort out Mass 1 miniatures?
Option 1) Mass 1 infantry could be able to change from attack orders to hold orders as a reaction. This could be the way the unit can get Aura parry.
Option 2) Mass 1 Infantry could be able to activate twice with a general passed authority test.
Option 3) Mass 1 Infantry could have the option to take some defensive equipment. On hold orders it can be deployed and could go towards negating the affects of charging units. This would be more Kingdred specific.
Just some ideas.

Lat thing I think.
Counter engage!
Charge declared, Counter declared as a reaction. Move the charger it's pace and move the counter charger to meet. If the distance to the counter engaged unit would of been enough to meet the requirement of swift move the charger can have the bonus from it. Both units count as charging and possibly swift chargers. Or do we measure the distance between the two units and move half of the measure distance and meet in the middle and if the distance moved meets the requirements for swift move you get the bonus.

Sorry for the epic long message.
I'm teaching Darkland down in Somerset and want to get it right. Plan to bring many to the next tournaments.

[Rob Lane]

Hey everyone,
This is going to be a long one.
First of all I would like to confirm some of the rule tweaks that have happened.
Bulk chargers:
The impact hits are directed to the miniature that the charger's head mark is base to base with. From what I have read in the rule book and on here from the errata, does this mean the miniature hit takes all of the damage dice or does it spread through the unit?

It spreads, just like wounds carry over when Attacking warriors of the same profile, but I'll make sure it's clear.

The reason I ask is, If you set up a V shape for infantry the miniature at the front could soak up all the damage and be removed from the table which would leave the attacker possibly out of combat which in turn would allow the defenders to attack move in. This example is with a large single miniature.

Indeed - very silly.

This brings me to the conversation on mass 1 infantry: If the above is the case this makes infantry a bit better. I don't think infantry should have 2 activations even with a Authority test. I don't believe that while in combat the infantry would last longer enough to take advantage of the second activation.

Maybe so, but it won't just be used when an infantry unit is in combat - it could be used to charge that enemy with another infantry unit, to flank somebody, etc. etc. - it's not as one-dimensional as that.

Effect damage and Overwhelmed damage.
This is were mass 1 will have major problems. Unless this has been tweaked and I have missed it, Effect damage as written in the rule book clearly states, If the quell test is failed the unit takes effect damage.
Effect damage: Damaged caused by delayed continuous effects must always be calculated by dividing the effect tokens by the mass of the warrior effected.
In the example It is 8 tokens divided by the mass of a mass 3 warrior and not the unit. 20 fire tokens on a unit of 15 mass 1 infantry would take 20/1=20 damage? 20 tokens on 5 mass 4 infantry would take 20/4=5 damage. If this is right this is brutal and awesome.
Some conversion came up at the GT that you take the Mass off and then divide the remainder. In some cases this would lead you to have massive amounts of token before hurting larger stuff.

Oh, it's correct. It's meant to be brutal. Dissipation is your friend. People moan at me for making the removal of tokens / templates too easy...!

Overwhelmed is unit mass. So if the token equal and or are above the unit would take damage. 20 fire tokens on a unit of 15 mass 1 infantry passes the quell test. 20/15=1.333 rounded up to 2 damage. each of the effect tells us what damage is applied from Overwhelmed.
Passing a quell test makes good sense for the amount of damage. everyone in the unit has helped sort out the effect. Failed test and your in trouble.

Yes, that's correct.

With the above rules in affect how do we sort out Mass 1 miniatures?
Option 1) Mass 1 infantry could be able to change from attack orders to hold orders as a reaction. This could be the way the unit can get Aura parry.
Option 2) Mass 1 Infantry could be able to activate twice with a general passed authority test.
Option 3) Mass 1 Infantry could have the option to take some defensive equipment. On hold orders it can be deployed and could go towards negating the affects of charging units. This would be more Kingdred specific.
Just some ideas.

All good ones, I don't think making them parry better is the way to go though - if a monster hits you, you're dead!

Lat thing I think.
Counter engage!
Charge declared, Counter declared as a reaction. Move the charger it's pace and move the counter charger to meet. If the distance to the counter engaged unit would of been enough to meet the requirement of swift move the charger can have the bonus from it. Both units count as charging and possibly swift chargers. Or do we measure the distance between the two units and move half of the measure distance and meet in the middle and if the distance moved meets the requirements for swift move you get the bonus.

Not quite, move the original chargers first, up to half their PACE; they always count as swift chargers if they can do so. Then move the counter-engagers in, who may/may not be swift dependent on how fast they go.

Sorry for the epic long message.
I'm teaching Darkland down in Somerset and want to get it right. Plan to bring many to the next tournaments.

Mate no worries! If you have any more input, let me know...

Cheers
Rob

[Robola]

Thanks Rob.
This makes thing much clearer.
I've had time to think about infantry acting twice. Let see if I have this right. Activate the General and pass a authority test and then on a pass activate a 30mm mass 1 infantry unit. Does this happen as well as the generals unit if its different one?
This could come in handy, Able to charge a unit before it charges you. Frenzy units still going to be tough thanks to counter-engage.
I can see why the GT had very limited infantry units. The great Wang was set up for fighting infantry. I did a few play tests and if the Great wang gets the charge off and hits a 20 strong mass 1 infantry unit, with impact hits and just 2 Fated corrupted strikes that is 48 tokens. The infantry then have to pass a quell test or take 48 wounds. God I love it! Better start taking a wizard in each infantry unit to try and get rid of effect tokens.

One last thing. Re-rolls! I've looked through and not seen anything, Can you re-roll zero results on dice? I normally don't re-roll any zero's in my games, but this could be wrong.

Time for some play testing! I like using infantry and believe that is much more thematic.

Cheers

[Rob Lane]

Thanks Rob.
This makes thing much clearer.

No worries, you're welcome!

I've had time to think about infantry acting twice. Let see if I have this right. Activate the General and pass a authority test and then on a pass activate a 30mm mass 1 infantry unit. Does this happen as well as the generals unit if its different one?

Not just the general, it can be a commander too, but don't worry - I'll be explaining it properly in a post shortly.

This could come in handy, Able to charge a unit before it charges you. Frenzy units still going to be tough thanks to counter-engage.
I can see why the GT had very limited infantry units. The great Wang was set up for fighting infantry. I did a few play tests and if the Great wang gets the charge off and hits a 20 strong mass 1 infantry unit, with impact hits and just 2 Fated corrupted strikes that is 48 tokens. The infantry then have to pass a quell test or take 48 wounds. God I love it! Better start taking a wizard in each infantry unit to try and get rid of effect tokens.

Hah yes, or artefacts that allow the same...

One last thing. Re-rolls! I've looked through and not seen anything, Can you re-roll zero results on dice? I normally don't re-roll any zero's in my games, but this could be wrong.

No - generally speaking, if a re-roll is allowed for zeros it will state "as well as for fated miss dice" or some such, or "fumbled invoked dice", etc - watch out for that. So if an artefact allows you to re-roll miss dice, unless it says fated as well, you can't re-roll the 0.

Time for some play testing! I like using infantry and believe that is much more thematic.

Cheers

No worries! Keep it going, and please let me know how you get on with your playtesting!

Cheers
Rob